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Verywell / Julie Bang
Welcome to the Verywell Mind podcast.
Im Amy Morin, editor-in-chief of Verywell Mind.
And the fun part is, we record the show from a sailboat in the FL Keys.
Now lets dive into todays episode.
Is going to a hospital or rehab center the only option?
There are actually a lot of different levels of care, as we call it in the therapy world.
But for some reason, you dont hear much about the in-between levels.
But those are only two levels of treatment.
In between those extremes, are what we call partial hospitalization programs and intensive outpatient programs.
Here to explain more about different levels of treatment is personal development coach Mike Bayer.
Hes a New York Times bestselling author and the founder and CEO of CAST Centers Treatment Center.
You might recognize him from the Dr. Phil show where he was a regularly featured expert.
ensure to stick around until the end of the episode for the therapists take.
So heres Mike Bayer on how to get help when therapy isnt enough.
Amy Morin: Mike Bayer, welcome to the Verywell Mind Podcast.
Mike Bayer: Amy, thanks for having me.
But most people are like, “Ah, I can’t do that.”
But here you are, you came down to-
Mike Bayer: I’m here.
Amy Morin: Marathon and you’re doing this in-person with us on a boat.
Mike Bayer: And I’m shocked that this boat’s not moving.
It’s so still.
Amy Morin: Fortunately, we’re not, because I actually get seasick.
So if we were rocking and rolling, you wouldn’t want to be talking to me right now.
But one of the things I wanted to talk to you about today is mental health treatment.
There’s so many options available.
Most people don’t know they exist.
Mike Bayer: Yeah, outpatient treatment works and outpatient treatment means getting more than therapy per week.
And IOP and residential have the same success rates.
There’s no difference in terms of going away to get well versus getting well in your hometown.
Amy Morin: Which I think is a huge misconception.
People think you have to go away and like that’s the real treatment.
Maybe if you’re struggling a little bit, you see a therapist.
If you’re struggling a lot, you go to residential treatment.
But that’s not necessarily the case.
What do they get out of it?
Mike Bayer: Yeah, so we have a model.
You process what happened last night, you’re processing what happened today.
Maybe you’re getting a specialized therapy throughout the week, but you’re basically just processing your life.
And so every week is a different theme.
So one week is about meaning and purpose.
So, another week is about your home life.
What does it look like today?
Amy Morin: And how many weeks do people stay with you?
Mike Bayer: About eight weeks.
Amy Morin: Okay.
Mike Bayer: Yeah.
Amy Morin: And for our listeners who don’t know, there’s intensive outpatient programs.
It’s got to be in all 50 states these days.
Mike Bayer: There is.
Amy Morin: There’s plenty of them, right?
Mike Bayer: Yeah.
Amy Morin: But why do you think it is we don’t hear about this?
Mike Bayer: I think funding.
So I think these inpatient programs, they charge a lot more.
They are the ones who have commercials on TV.
So outpatients don’t cost as much.
They’re more affordable.
They’re not trying to get clients for 70,000 a month that some of these inpatient programs charge.
And the reality is, that’s why insurance companies now are paying less and less for inpatient treatment.
Coming back, it’s a shock.
Amy Morin:Right.
I would think so.
Amy Morin: And how can somebody confirm they’re finding a quality one?
How do you find quality treatment?
Mike Bayer: Well, you’re right.
The admissions or directors are marketers.
Sales on the front end, right?
Can I speak to other clients who have gone through?
Do you have anyone that I could speak to?"
So that’s one question.
Another, I wouldn’t necessarily go by reviews.
Amy Morin: Right.
Part-time means they just come in and run a group and leave, so there’s no staffing really.
The good news is you’ve got the option to go and then leave.
It’s just bogus.
That makes no sense.
It’s the same thing as bringing in a personal trainer for your body.
Why do you think that is?
Mike Bayer: Well, I think chemistry dictates everything.
And so some people don’t want to change.
Some people want someone else to do it for them.
And some people have gone to bad therapists.
There’s a lot of bad therapy out there.
Amy Morin: Right.
But other people are like, “I’m sitting in my living room.
I don’t want to start talking about my childhood trauma while I’m sitting on my couch.
Mike Bayer: Right.
Well, and I think it’s also, the therapists, in my opinion …
I mean, I sound a little jaded.
Well, they’re overheads lower, they should be charging lower.
And then also, there’s no evidence to support that they’re getting results for their clients.
Amy Morin: Right.
Amy Morin: Right.
I mean, there’s no comparison.
I mean, it’s like you working out nine to 10 hours a week versus one hour.
You’re going to get your mental health more sound much quicker.
Mike Bayer: Well, treatment used to be very private.
Then insurance kicks back in.
We talk about the 30-day model of inpatient.
Mike Bayer: Right?
So also I think there’s a lot more modalities of treatment.
I think there’s a lot more options.
Maybe there’s some more underlying issues.
Things are a lot more dual diagnosis today.
I think therapists are better equipped for complex issues.
I think that there’s a lot more specialized treatment today.
you might really find what you’re looking for.
It was such a big deal if someone was a drug addict.
And in today’s world, everyone knows someone who’s in recovery.
Amy Morin: Sure.
And how do people find the right level of care?
So I think sometimes people get overwhelmed.
They’re like, “I don’t know what I need.”
There’s so many different kinds of therapy, so many different levels of care.
And really, what they were doing was just referring to their own facilities.
They have no invested interest in figuring out other facilities outside their online grid.
And so if you ever call a place and they’re a call center, hang up.
Amy Morin: How do you do that?
You call, and then how do you confirm that that’s who you’re talking to?
Mike Bayer: Well, you could say, “Am I speaking to CAST Centers?”
Mike Bayer: “Am I speaking to so-and-so on the website?”
Or I mean, if you really try, you’ll figure it out.
So these are people who their budgets are a $100,000 to $150,000 a month on pay-per-select Google.
Well, outpatients can’t compete with these treatment centers across the country that are just buying up turns.
Amy Morin: That’s the thing, and it used to be commercials on TV.
Mike Bayer:And I used to think different …
It’s just, it’s unnecessary.
Mike Bayer: Because people don’t want to get uncomfortable.
Amy Morin: Yeah.
Mike Bayer: And people want to take the easier or softer way.
But a lot of those places spin dry.
They just keep taking her, billing her insurance.
Amy Morin: Right.
Because I hear you, because I feel that way too.
I hear from so many people who say, “I thought this was it.
I want to send him to CAST Centers.
I want him to go there, even if it doesn’t take our insurance.”
I said, “Do not take out a mortgage on your home.
Why would you take out a mortgage?
Helping people change is not a 30-day anything.
It’s not a 60.
Mike Bayer: I’ve seen so many people waste money sending people to treatment.
And I think if you don’t have the money, there’s so many resources out there today.
But the challenge again is they’re talking to someone on the front end.
Whenever someone says, “This is the best program,” the best program doesn’t exist.
Amy Morin: I agree.
And that what works for one person isn’t going to work.
It’s like we know, and there’s the whole gamut.
Sometimes people say, “AA saved me.”
Other people are like, “I went to three AA meetings.
It was horrible, but what actually worked for me was medication.”
Mike Bayer: Right.
Or some people find God, or some people figure … Do I need residential?
Do I need this intensive program?
Do I just need an hour week of therapy?”
How do they decide or is it not up to them to decide?
Mike Bayer: No, that’s a great question.
Mike Bayer: Correct.
A good therapist is going to help you figure it out.
Amy Morin: Yes.
Mike Bayer: Yeah.
Because bottom, it does get worse.
Sometimes you need medication.
I think we all, like I go to therapy every now and then.
Last year I went to therapy a lot.
I went through a breakup, was feeling really depressed.
So it’s like, get some help.
Amy Morin: Right.
Mike Bayer: Yeah, and I think the other differentiators in-patient is if you need detox.
Amy Morin: Yup.
Mike Bayer: It’s scenarios where you just, you have to go away.
Amy Morin: I agree.
There’s lots of other things we can do when we’re struggling.
Amy Morin: All right.
One last question for you.
What is the best piece of mental health advice you’ve ever received from anyone?
Mike Bayer: Oh, God.
The best piece of mental health advice that I have received from anyone.
Oh, my God, what a question.
Amy Morin: Tough, right?
Mike Bayer: What the heck do people say normally?
Amy Morin: I don’t know.
Mike Bayer: Yeah.
The best mental health advice.
Mental health is interesting because it’s like when you’re really struggling or just in general, right?
Amy Morin: Right, right.
Mike Bayer: Because there’s just such a range, right?
I think the best mental health advice that I’ve had is keep it simple and do the basics.
Amy Morin: I love it.
Mike Bayer, thank you for being on the Verywell Mind Podcast.
Mike Bayer: Thanks, Amy.
The Therapist’s Take
Welcome to the therapists take.
Here are three of Mikes strategies that I highly recommend.
#1 - Research your treatment options
Treatment isnt one-size-fits-all.
Thats good and bad news.
The good part about it means that you have options.
It can feel overwhelming and confusing and you might be tempted to give up.
Having someone assist it’s possible for you to be really helpful.
If youre a regular listener of the show, youve heard past guests talk about whats worked for them.
Surfer Kelly Slater goes to couples therapy with his girlfriend.
Retired NFL player Reggie Walker went to a residential treatment center for his mental health.
On the other hand, actor Richie Stephens said AA worked for him.
Could an intensive program that you attend in-person every day really jumpstart the changes you want to make?
Those are just a few things to consider as you begin to look into your options.
#2 - Contact several potential treatment centers.
Whether youre looking for help for you or a loved one, its important to have options.
Call around to several treatment centers or clinics and talk to them.
And ask to talk to people who have been through the program or their families.
A great strategy is to create a list of potential treatment options.
If your loved one is potentially interested, dont insist they get help.
Keep in mind though that claims of a high success rate dont mean anything.
How are they defining success?
They might just be surveying patients before they leave and asking do you feel better than when you arrived?
If people say yes, they call it success.
It doesnt mean people are doing better six months or a year later.
Be on the lookout for places that look more like a spa than a treatment center.
Its filled with some eye opening information about the rehab industry.
#3 - Look into funding options.
Mike says there are lots of options to pay for treatmentand I agree.
But you might need to ask.
If you have insurance, thats the place to start.
Call your insurance company and ask what your benefits cover.
But remember, theres more than one path to treatment.
There are tons of lower cost or even free resources out there.
Or you might join a free group for mental health too.
So dont give up just because treatment sounds expensive.
To learn more about Mike, check out his websitecoachMikeBayer.comor his treatment center atcastcenters.com.
Simply sharing a link to this episode could help someone feel better and grow stronger.
Do you want free access to my online course?
Its called 10 mental strength exercises that will help you reach your greatest potential.
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Our email address ispodcast@verywell.comWell reply with your all access pass to the course.
Thank you for hanging out with me today and listening to the VW Mind podcast.
